neil: union red alert. forget black friday strikes. dow labor groups are going right for your green. welcome, everybody. i'm tom sullivan in for neil cavuto, and i guess you could call it the anti tea party message. unions looking to hijack fiscal cliff talks by trying to convince democrats and republicans to take a sharp left. launching an ad campaign telling both parties to raise taxes and don't dare budge on those entitlement cuts. former new york mayor rudy guiliani says the push to the left just isn't right. mr. mayer, a lot of money, a lot of money at stake. you know all the people involved, all of the groups are going to come out.

>> critical straitening out of the fiscal disaster, dealing with expenditures. where the republicans have to give on revenues, they only have to give on revenues if you get really good cuts in expenditures this is a terrible message. maybe good for the unions, but it is bad for the country and our children because of this does is increase the debt under which they are operating and which is already getting close to historic. tom: the thing about all this, it seems like we are getting into a semantic battle because i was reading through the statement said the union leaders , spending a lot of money advertising, especially to republican congressional folks. >> right. right. tom: raise taxes. it think they have somebody, but the semantics are the speaker is echoing mitt romney's comments about raising revenues. but the union folks are saying, we want to raise tax rates. big difference. >> i don't know if they can get that through. eighty-seven members of congress

reelected two years here with a solemn promise that they're not going to vote for any kind of tax increase. get them to vote for some kind of major tax rate increase. a just and see how you can do it. >> it's an argument that you would think somebody in the math department would be held to figure out because republicans say the lower rates and revenues go up. we have history to show that. democrats say the opposite. >> and you stimulate your economy. if you raise rates and don't cut expenditures, what you are doing is making the fiscal problem that much worse. raising rates is a onetime revenue grab. expenditures is a long-term reduction in. and the reality is, we have to do a lot more of expenditure reduction than we do increases in revenue. tom: do you think that the democrats and specifically the president would go along with

some sort of quid pro quo where for every dollar for every $5 of reduction in spending we will have some sort of formula that raises rates? >> i think that is doable. not raising rates. i think raising revenue, meaning put some limits on deductions. but some women on exemptions. but some women on some of these special deals that people have or engage in. i concede that as an avenue through which you can gain more revenue. it comes out to the same thing. taxes go up. tom: but it's a little easier to sell. >> the promise not to increase tax rates. but none of it, i think, works. unless the white house is serious about some real spending cuts. tom: are they? are they? >> i don't think it happens. then we thought the fiscal cliff. there going to have to show some kind of movement on medicare. either an increase in net the

age, 67, 68, 69, or maybe make it means tested. democrats don't like means tested because they're afraid that will undercut, eventually that will undercut all of medicaid. going to have to have some reductions in medicare, medicaid. and you will have to do something about social security. if you don't do that i don't see how you have accomplished anything. tom: mr. mayor, you know that there is a lot of republicans that are saying i want smaller government, less spending, and tanana reform. don't take my check away from me >> but they have to face reelection in two years. you can read too much into this election. this was not a mandate. this was a popular vote to% election, even electoral votes when he looked at the states, separated by 2%, 3%, 4%. this was not some kind of major reelection when like reagan had, like even clinton had.

clinton might think, won by 8%, reagan nine, ten, 11%. there is no real mandate here. so i can't see the republicans getting too overwhelmed by these ads. the president's new popularity numbers just came out. it's 51 percent. that is a pretty small jump for a guy you just won an election. tom: the only people are really concerned, two years from now there is another whole house -- house members that will be reelected. >> and they have to go back to district that elected them to lower taxes. so you go back to that district. you promise you'll never vote for a tax increase. taxes go up. tom: two years later. >> and members of congress think about themselves and their reelection. tom: let me ask you about retail. on the cusp of thanksgiving, but friday coming up. all kinds of issues. you are telling me before we started, very concerned about it

theft. >> i am a consultant to life lock. let's lock and of course, gives protection against it in the theft, have done a lot of work studying this. vastly increasing crime. the reality is, this is a very dangerous time of the year. this is the time in which had been the thieves are out there, buying in stores to looking to pick up as much information as they can get to looking to buy information. shopping on-line, trying to get as much of the nation as they can. if they can get a credit card to my credit cards of being compromised all the time, but they're looking to try and get social security number so they can get into social security council so they can get into your bank records. this is probably the fastest growing crime in america. tom: i'm a victim, and i don't know how it happened. i don't know how it happened. some guy in union georgia got my idea. i had no idea. i'd never been to union,

georgia. tom: -- >> what i tell people is you have to get yourself protection. you have to get a service that will help the that will track your use of your card, check your use of your numbers and pickup whenever there is a suspicious use and notify you. that is lifelike does. i think they're the best at it, but there are a number of other services. if you like one of them better, go get one of them, but you should be protected if you're going to do online purchases. you should be protected. tom: i know the way that worked against me. apparently some guy walked in and they said to make your buyyng this. if you want to sign up for our credit card right now will give you an extra 10 percent off. somehow they had might be. i started seeing all these notices that i was applying for credit at all the stores had never been to before. tom: i was just in england and france for eight days. i got three alerts. three alights from lifelike. ms. hughes, that used. other wanted to know, was it me.

guesstimate was me. then, if it wasn't me at pick it up right away, they would be able to track it and stop it with the first miss use, and that's how it works. tom: before i let you go and have to ask you about romney bashing. you have republicans out there that are, you know -- tom: -- >> it gets me so angry because the fact is mitt romney ran a good enough campaign to win. no campaign is perfect. campaigns that i won, campaigns that i lost my was not perfect. the loss in this election was mechanics. mitt romney had a high enough percentage to win the election. 48 percent means he can win. his mechanics, his organization was not as good as pulling his vote as the obama campaign was in pulling hairs, and the obama campaign was super. textbook. if you want to learn how to do it, go look at what obama did. tom: going back to your id information. what i hear is that their campaign is so amazing that they

know everything about you. and what kind of car you drive, where you live -- >> they know who to bull, workable. you look at a district that may be is going to vote seven, a at a ten for obama, you pull everybody in that district. and you get to a district is more like 5050 and you have to be more careful. you want to pull 50% in the right 50 percent. their approach to this was the best i've ever seen. call rolls elected george bush twice during that. and i would say, and i don't want to it get him mad at me, but this may have been and not some of what he was able to do. tom: everybody says it was pretty amazing. mr. mayor, always good to see you. happy thanksgiving. well, coming up, this thanksgiving, up-and-coming republicans could be giving in to raising taxes. michael reagan on the gop selling that no tax pledge. unions, they are on the attack,

not just at walmart. ceos on the key to dealing with unions.

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why am i not going anywhere? you don't believe hard enough. a smarter way to shop around. now that'sprressive. call or click today. [ grunting ] ♪ tom: a whole new world in washington with all this talk of compromise. talk republicans could caved on tax hikes. high-ranking leaders expressing flexibility when it comes to taxes. some newly elected house republicans, guess what, refusing says signing grover norquist note tax pledge. michael reagan on help breaking that pledge. are they going to cave? >> well, i hope they don't. this is not about republicans trying to figure out, if we cave, the electorate will love us. no, they won't. if the cave, the democrats will laugh all the way to the bank. the election coming upon a couple of years. you might remember, my father

made this deal with the democrats back in 1980. $3 in spending cuts for every dollar in new taxes. guess what? taxes and a place. my father has been dead since 2004. he is still waiting for the tax cuts to comment. they will never come in unless you get them first, not last the. tom: history repeats itself. and i suspect -- >> all the time. the democrats selling the three for one package for ever. you never seemed to get the $3 in spending cuts, but you always get the tax increase. you know, the mayor was right. this is about the fact that there is too much spending and washington who, in fact imitates that money to spend it. the california. proposition 30 just passed. everybody thought they were voting to give money to schools. then they found out, it's not going to schools, it's going to the pensions come. the schools are not getting a dime. they found out something else, its record -- retroactive to

january 12012. tom: are you serious? did just passed a tax law that will go back to the beginning of the year? >> absolutely right. property is retroactive. the tax part of it is retroactive to january 1st 2012. the money generated from that goes to solidify the pensions of the teachers. it does not go to the schools at all. these are the games the democrats played day in, day out, wheeher it's california or washington d.c. tom: well, there have been some people lately that have been talking about one prominent publisher from weekly standard, bill kristol. they have been playing that over and over again. you know, after all i guess tea party people and everybody else and not too concerned about raising taxes on millionaires because half of them live in hollywood. are they going to -- it seems like some people on the ride are starting to talk about raising taxes. >> well, certainly -- listen,

you can't sit and raise taxes on everybody else just to get back in hollywood. half of hollywood goes to monaco. you don't have to pay taxes. then head of facebook gave up his citizenship. democrats, i don't know any republicans who have given up their citizenship to get away from texas. you can name on your hand a few democrats who, in fact, have done that. california, truck percent unemployment. they just voted to raise taxes $7 billion. people cannot afford a tax increase coming out of washington as everybody knows. it will only last eight and a half days. it will not make the people who vote happy with republicans, but it will undermine the very base of the republican party. but the republican party needs to do is get a new message and a new messenger out there that is inclusive, not exclusive. i talked to a group just this friday in west palm beach, florida. ronald reagan, you're talking too much about ronald reagan. any to embrace and he was.

be inclusive within the party. if you listen to an asian or hispanic and all they think the republicans want to do is throw their butts out of the united states. it's time to be inclusive, not exclusive. get the kind of necessary to everybody and get off of the tax program. that is not the answer. tom: the social issues are another story. being inclusive is another whole story, but when it comes to fiscal i am convinced that people on the left and the right are fiscal conservatives. they don't want to throw their money away. they don't want to give it to the government and have been wasted. i take that message you are onto is stay on that republican fiscal conservative message and be inclusive. it sounds like a ramp. tom: all right. michael, thank you so much. good to see you again. well, the 20, too sweet to fail? here is one bailout we can all

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♪ tom: breaking news. hostess is planning to liquidate . mediators have just announced that they are -- well, they failed to broker a deal between the company and its unions. twinkies, there is still hope. they might not get creamed because americans are taking action. guess what? they are bringing there case straight to the president. more than 3,000 taxpayers have already petitioned telling the

president to nationalize the 20 industry. what the deal is, once you get 25,000 people to sign on to this petition on the white house website the white house says they will, indeed, respond. financial consultants, not a fan of bailouts. says this time we could make an exception. what do you mean? >> tom, i love this idea. this is an awesome idea. i absolutely think we should be out there saving the 20. in fact, we actually get the job done we can get joe biden two years for not talking about how they killed osama and save the twinkie. this is an absolute must do. tom: this is. the white house has this rule that says, you can petition the white house on anything him but you have to get 25,000 of your fellow citizens. [talking over each other] like all of the names. the only problem is, they have

to get to 25,000. after a what about the 18,000 peoppe who are losing their jobs? why aren't they signing this petition? >> look. i guess this thing just got started. i imagine there will be first in line to sign the petition because government should intervene, but i would make some ground rules. i would not just go out and say, starting with -- we cannot give them the 500 million tell -- before they file for bankruptcy. we have to wait. given the money in the neck and file for bankruptcy. we have to have some ground rules. tom: at think i know what you're talking about. instead of the snowball, maybe they could change that to the solyndra ball. >> listen. i love that idea. i also absolutely insist that management drive down to washington to pick up the check in one of those hostess trucks was a kid he a crate of the ding dongs and flight down on a sugar

high. they have to go down and pick up the check. tom: basically, what you are saying is your not a fan of bailouts, tired of government bailouts, but this is different. this is important. >> very important. tom: if you look at the website, it's under a human-rights. it's on the human rights area on the white house website. >> have you ever tried to live without one of these things? this is serious stuff. america is very concerned. we only have a fiscal cliff to deal with in the war in the middle east. but we need to put some standards there. we have done a piece of the company. 71 percent that we could never sell for profit. we can never sell for profit. we have to extend the shelf life on these things. right now the shelf life is eternity. we have to bring debt down to three days because the government is involved now. we have to have all these conditions that will ensure. oh, my favorite, my favorite because we have to have respect

for the american taxpayer and how often they have gone into their pocket and a swindle them. we will call this thing a sweet, not a twinkie. tom: out of these 3,000 people that have already signed, and i don't know why 18,000 haven't, but how many of them are serious, you think, and how many of them think this might be just as buffon government bailouts? >> listen. i hope to god it is, but in all seriousness there are stories about these 20 selling on ebay for a substantial amount of money. people like this stuff, and they're really, through the bankruptcy proceeding, the way it should happen, you know, management or any company will come in and by the name, by the brand and hopefully rehire a lot of these people. doing this a little bit tongue-in-cheek. government involvement would be a nightmare. tom: at think it is a great

spirit. but thank you for playing along. appreciated. >> you have a great evening. tom: you, too. well, the health care law makes you and eggs benedict arnolds? wendy's franchise owner says costs we will force customers to pay up. big waves are telling him to shut up.

♪ tom: danny is now serving a breakfast with a big dose of hushed up. the restaurant chain muzzling a franchise owner after he announced health care law may force him to cut employee hours and high prices on customers. job creators alliance member not

surprised. he says washington regulations almost always hit small business owners artists. >> good evening. tom: good evening. >> it is not just a denny's. every small business job creator in the country. these may sound good in the state of the union, but when you get on the ground it is hard for these businesses to function under this onslaught of regulation, even trying to understand the regulations challenging. tom: but people -- the customers are confused. the customers are outside. this guy made this announcement. ounce 30 as much as 40 different franchises to mostly in the florida area, so he has of these customers banging on his door yet at the same time they are the people that are supporting these extra regulations, extra laws. they don't connect the dots that it's going to cost businesses more, which will be passed on to them. >> that is the missing part of the equation.

as cost goes up they have to be passed along to the user. there is no free lunch, even though the politicians try to convince us all the time that there is. and also, i think he is showing the level of frustration, many small businessmen would with this kind of onslaught of regulation. tom: can you pass on the cost? you can always. as a problem. >> no, and when you can't what happens, you don't expand. essentially maybe you contract, so it is bad for job creation, bad for business, and it's bad for the economic growth of our country. tom: well, this guy, i think he was talking from his heart. probably a guy who -- i talked to a guy today he said cameos 30 denny's. he means -- must be a very wealthy man. he might be struggling to make his bills. i don't know. denny's came out and said stop it. we have other restaurants, and maybe they're not going to do this. but i think he was talking from his heart.

>> obviously he is taking the brunt of this high-cost initiative by the federal government. and what should be happening, all governments at all levels should be cooperating with the job creators, which is what we are trying to encourage and to do so that we not only create more jobs but more economic growth and more income growth for the middle-class. when you don't have new investment, it constricts the economy which is what we're in right now. we start acting more like europe and less like america. we need to start investing more, creating more jobs, more economic growth, and more opportunities for everybody. tom: you know what could happen? this is just a guess and we will have to wait and see when they implement obamacare, but i think a lot of businesses, you have heard them, businesses are talking about putting people down, hourly workers down below 30 hours of the give and take the regulation, but that might add more -- they might have to hire more people, but it will be more people that are part time

cannot full-time. >> that is exactly what is going to happen, and we could end up with fewer people on health care that we have right now because obviously this law was not well thought out, was not read by the politicians, ran through the congress. i don't think this is what the founders intended when it put together the constitution. tom: i don't think they saw this one coming, not at all, but this is the thing about what is going to happen. we don't know. everybody will wait. you have to wait until it is implemented to see what the law actually does. the use suspect people will be surprised? >> i think there will be very surprised. in our business we always say, if you make a mistake it made you made a mistake and go back to where you came from. i would recommend to the congress and president they admit this was a huge mistake, it will have a very adverse impact on our economy, particularly small business and job creators, and it's time that they don't implement and reverse

the slump. tom: well, we will wait and see. i mean, i suspect right now the political factions are so dug-in and it's going to probably take another round of elections before we start getting around to where people can react because it is not until 2013 we get a lot of this obamacare regulation and taxes, but 2014 is when the big enchilada its. >> every single year it will be more taxes and more regulation which means we will have consistently high unemployment and they talk about taxing the rich does not hurt the rich, well, you know what, it really hurts investment. it hurts new jobs, which is the message we're trying to get out from the job creators. investment creates jobs, economic growth. tom: you guys do a great job. you have all been job creators, said united do it. thank you so much. appreciate you coming on. >> a pleasure to be with you. tom: next, how i union could be making your hospital stay a lot

riskier. it is the nurse strike that has hospital patients losing their patients. ♪ [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, nois a good time to think about your options. are you looking for a plan that really meets your needs

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♪ tom: union nurses are at it again, a big california union representing more than 3,000 nurses at ten hospitals protesting proposed cuts to their benefits. and they are striking for the seventh time in a little more than a year. the national right to work committee president, and he warns that the union is setting the stage for a dangerous situation. >> well, these union officials force workers off the job, many don't want to walk off the job, but if they do go back to work they can be fined and disciplined by their union. we represented nurses in minnesota who wanted to take care of patients. forced to cross the picket line

in a disciplined. we had to represent them and get in and out of what would be fine and disciplinary action for trying to take care of the patients. tom: by going to work, crossing the picket line. >> exactly. tom: the other problem, and i have seen these strikes. it is amazing how often they come along. why so often? it seems like most unions, they get a collective bargaining agreement and it sticks for a least two or three years. >> negotiating strategy. the announce these strikes. it's happening more. these flash mobs strike mentalities that keep management off -- on their heels. and so now the management has to go out and find a way to carapaces of the union officials make demands. it's a difficult situation and something that has developed since the 1974 when nonprofit hospitals got into the bargaining business prior to that it had been illegal to bargain at nonprofit hospitals. tom: let me just talk about nurses in general. we have all kinds of critical jobs in our country that you cannot strike, the air traffic

controllers or some other examples. nurses seem like they would fit that bill. >> well, in 1946 and the american nurses association decided there are going to adopt a bargaining strategy in 1947 exempted nonprofit including nonprofit hospitals from bargaining. it did not get repealed until 1974, but that was after the 1966 strike in san francisco that 30 hospitals were struck by unions. that paved the way for passage a law that allowed strikes and bargaining in the hospital sector back in 1974. tom: the nurses, and i'm familiar with nordic california. they have been very aggressive. you were telling me before we started during the break that this is a national issue. >> we have cases in florida, texas, tennant, hca, kaiser, all the big health care providers. basically they're leveraging management to do what is called a neutrality agreement. management agrees to unionized

employees without as secret ballot election, and now wants to get them organized a comeback and levers and. tom: so shame on the management and the hospitals. >> absolutely. tom: it is a no-win situation. the corporate campaign that is waste against these companies is that death by a thousand cuts. they come at you from all different angles, religious groups, so-called religious groups, community groups, financial groups, bankers, customers and leverage you. tom: very good at what they do. the golden goose is going to change. a government program. the obamacare program. how will that impact collective bargaining, nurses, and all these things that they are asking for or is this a precursor? >> i think that's right. the obamacare, full implementation will lead to a massive unionization drive in the health care sector. we read about this in 2009. if you read the 2,000 plus page

legislation, numerous opportunities for organized labor to leverage themselves. and so this is preparation for that. tom: well, if your union leader, your thinking, well, wait a minute. we will be working for this hospital. the hospital is basically a government program. basically negotiating for a government deal. tom: exactly right. >> the home health care provider who is forced to pay fees to the union in order to take care of her own child. governor robert way of its and pat quinn has said, you have to pay dues to the union. the supreme court right now. tom: that seems like common sense.

forget the fiscal cliff. get ready for the climate clef. a tax is coming that will push everyone right over the edge. ♪

♪ tom: new worries the you could get smacked by yet another tax. momentum is growing for a carbon tax that would slam companies that use a lot of energy. that is just that any place that makes anything. the congressional budget office even studying climate change taxes. junk science, keep the change. this is a terrible idea. sounds like it is getting at least more visibility. >> well, since the election and

hurricanes and the climate alarmists have gotten excited about the possibility of getting some sort of law passed by, 2013 to help their cause. and can penetrate, cap and trade is basically a dead term. moving on to something else, and i think is the carbon tax. carbon tax is as easily as sales tax that would be applied to your electric bill or at the gas pump or all the goods and services that are produced with gasoline electricity which means everything. tom: let's go back to the politics. on what to get into how this works. it passed when nancy pelosi was speaker. it passed the house, did not get anywhere in the senate. so they're going to change the name, but it sounds like the same thing. >> and it barely passed the nancy pelosi controlled house. it's not even going to come close to passing the speaker controlled house.

this idea is really more than done a rival, really dead on anticipation. >> the president said when he was a candidate for five years ago that your cost will skyrocket. he used the word skyrocket. and he's talking about you and me and our homes for heating and cooling our homes, but for big businesses out there that use a lot of power, manufacturers, refiners to move things along those lines. they're going to have to pass those costs on. >> no question about that. and they are already starting to. the only thing that has held back is the fact that our economy is sort of in the toilet right now. more difficult to pass those costs on, but if the economy ever picks up manufacturers and service providers are going to start passing those which will slow down any future growth and recovery. tom: listtn. just yesterday california launched the first -- its the

second biggest in the world next to europe. they want to look like europe. carbon exchange. so are we going to watch california for the laboratory to see how it impacts business and customers? >> i don't even know the point of watching california. it's a failed state walking. the fact that they are trying campaign trail is silly. one of the smart things that mitt romney said was it is called global warming. you can take the entire united states off line in terms of carbon emissions today and keep it off line for the rest of this century and you would make it -- he would not make one bit of difference. even less so for california. they will find that that gasoline, goods and services, but the climate is the same. the climate is the climate. tom: will they connect the dots back to this carbon trading that they have got that they lost in california? great information.

thank you for joining us. well, unions are threatening strikes and now getting a powerful ally. billionaire liberal donor george soros is soaring in and helping them out. two big ceos who are fired up. i always wait until the last minute. can i still ship a gift in time r christmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery.

so, which supeast 4g lte service would yochoose, based on this chart ? don't rush into it, i'm not looking for the fastest answer. obviously verizon. okay, i have a different chart. going that way, does that make a difference ? look at verizon. it's so much more than the other ones. so what if we just changed the format altogether ? isn't that the exact same thing ? it'sretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks combined.

tom: you did seeing red over black friday now more are representing more to aid workers eve bid billionaire george soros is coming out in support of there efforts. some retailers are having a hard time but this union shop has no problems. also won a hundred flowers his company is not union. what is your secret? >> the mission statement. associates our number one. we are a family business. it is not adversarial like the airline industry. we treat them like our own.

tom: you are not union butt3 you have employees that are independent? >> a large number that handle customer increase and about five years ago one by 172 1/2 to leave because they had a disabled parent because they cannot come to the office. as a family business we said would you like to continue to work? i can't. could you work for home -- from home? then we have a tipping point*. would you prefer to work at home? we have 1800 people work from home. tom: technology has made that possible. you have these stores washington and through made and the york york.

you have busy stores. i need to see the person standing there. >> it is about the customer. at the end of the day we have to serve our customers. with happy associates we have a fighting chance. >> i have known bit and on time. they will open a big night? -- midnight? he will be at home resting? he will be there with my two boys. >> that is leadership. tom: if you ask somebody to do something you should do-it-yourself. we would never open early. that is the thing and -- thinks giving tradition and then starting 12:00 off to the races. tom: that is a dead sea

move. can i call it the time to get an order? >> we have spent 24/7 a long time. you sat down and had a conversation. how do we work this out? we had people working with different religions and those who were jewish said we will cover christmas. they work it out themselves. if you have a platform you can have a conversation. we know the end goal to serve the country. tom: communication and leadership is the message. but at the same time they think we work with you but we need to get extra something. how do you handle that? >> at the end of the day we

take care of our associate's. when we were closed for three days for hurricane zandi all associates were paid we lost $700,000 but it was the right thing to do. my goal is to make them feel great. tom: then why do they pay the union? >> we have been in the union 50 years with the distribution center with the stores their relationship this transparent and of trust and respect and it makes it work. tom: look at the airline's there seems to be animosity. the one airline that is union is southwest. >> it is great leadership and transparency. you don't have the cycles of

boom/bus. the unions have to take a compromise then they come back to say we want all of it. there is a foundation of trust built up you don't have verbal animosity. tom: it is easy to do to say they're ruining the company but to say would you agree to the contract? you better fulfill the promises if it is to expensive then shame on you. >> look at the motivation if it is to be elected office to big sometimes they lose contact with the real motivation. the customer and the company and t